LIZ COOK: Theme, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really, really looking forward to this interview, because you guys, yourself, and your beautiful brand synthesis have only come across my radar in the last couple of months. So in preparing for this interview, and I know we've done a bit of chatting prior to this, and I've chatted to your team, but I have so many questions because I know you guys have been around for a while, and yet you feel brand new to me. So I've got lots to ask you. But let's start with this one. Theme Reigns is Your name now, that has to be one of the coolest names on the planet. You definitely should be in the natural industry somewhere. Can you talk to me about your name? Is it a birth name or a chosen name? And what's the story?

THEME RAINS: Sure. And I mean, it's just an absolute pleasure to be here and talking with you. I think I shared with you. I purchased your perfumes and I use Rain because it's in my name.

LIZ COOK: Yes.

THEME RAINS: And love your work. It's been an inspiration for a long time, just the beautiful work that you're doing.

LIZ COOK: Thank you.

THEME RAINS: So it's great to finally be sitting down and having this conversation with you.

LIZ COOK: Absolutely.

THEME RAINS: My name was given to me by my spiritual teacher when I was 21, and it was such a huge time for me where I felt like I was rebirthing into a whole new state of being. And so I took the name on and I went and changed it at the passport office. And so it's been on my passport, it's been my proper name since I was 21. And the meaning behind it that he gave it was like he just wrote it down on a piece of paper, actually, the day after I met him. And I just felt right to take it on. It wasn't a rejection of my born name at all or my family. Many of them still call me the name I was born with. It was more a celebration of what I just discovered and wanted to live into. So Theme comes from the heart of Prometheus. And so the energy of the name is an invitation to be part of the evolutionary shift in consciousness. So Prometheus brought fire from heaven to mankind to support the next shift in consciousness. So Theme is an invitation to be part of that. And Rains, prometheus is associated with fire. Rains is to cool things down and bring in the nurturing force. So it's a very alchematic name with the fire and water and so, yeah, that's the story behind it.

LIZ COOK: That's awesome. And I'm just thinking about my name while you're talking and I'm like, wow, this cook sounds so boring.

THEME RAINS: Not at all, because I'm sure if you delve into the history and the meaning of it all absolutely meanings there.

LIZ COOK: And we're born with our names now, and in our culture, obviously we stick with them. But if you look back to cultures thousands of years ago, they were given names according to their work or the changes in their life or their calling and so on. So it's actually just something that we're not used to. But it's so potent, isn't it?

THEME RAINS: It is. My father laughs because he said I was renaming myself from, like, a young child, he'd turn up, pick me up somewhere to be, like, there's no one here called that because I'd introduced myself to everyone else's, whatever my new name.

LIZ COOK: Wow. So he wasn't even surprised when you told him?

THEME RAINS: I think he was a bit surprised. That's so good. But he's learned to find the humor in it.

LIZ COOK: That's awesome. Well, I am really excited not only to interview you, Theme, but also just to get involved in what synthesis is doing. As I mentioned in my intro, you guys have only just come across my radar. I know that a lot of people are discovering you because of your beautiful notox serum, which we'll talk about in a minute. And we're doing, obviously, a collab giveaway with you guys this week, the week of the podcast launch, sorry, this episode launch. So I'm really excited to get involved with you and only have really discovered you guys in the last couple of weeks, sorry, a couple of months. And I think that what you're doing is really, really beautiful in the beauty and wellness space. When I popped down to Byron Bay, your team there gave me some more samples of your products and I had no idea that your product range is so extensive. And so I've tried your beautiful products over the last month or so and I absolutely love them. And every time I put one on, I think, how has this gone under the radar? These products are exquisite. So I'm really, really excited to be working with you. A, because your products are beautiful and they do what they say they're going to do, but also because of your ethos around the brand and how you're moving through the space. So can you kind of give us a little bit of a history about Synthesis for anyone who hasn't discovered you yet, or just to give us an idea of what your journey has been like and how have you found you found yourself in this position now where suddenly you seem to be everywhere. Give us a bit of your story.

THEME RAINS: It's amazing how that happens, isn't it? So called overnight success.

LIZ COOK: Oh, yeah, that takes 100 years.

THEME RAINS: Synthesis came out of my journey through the healing arts and my commitment to the healing arts. And so it really started as products I was making for fellow therapists. And so it spread through a network of therapists, not just in Australia, but around the world, because I wanted to create products that would elevate the treatments that they were offering. And this was way back when organic was just we had some of the first certified organic products in Australia, but again, unknown. We just did it because we wanted everyone to have peace of mind about what we were using and doing. So it spread through this network of therapists. And then I got introduced from a therapist to another therapist who said, how would you like to pitch your products to the Peninsula Hot Springs in Victoria? And I was like, well, sure, they're looking for a new product house, so they organized for me to go down. And I did a treatment for the owner and the spa director and the wellness director, and they used the product for a while. And it was real kudos to them because they selected Synthesis as their brand partner over many, much more well known brands. But they recognized the value alignment and they believed in that. And so that catapulted us into being a proper business. Suddenly, instead of doing the other therapies that I was doing running retreats and one on one, therapies, et cetera. I was like, okay, we now have I have proper business because the Peninsula do 38,000 treatments a year. So just making enough products for them, it got sort of serious and then through them started providing more wellness partners and stockists spas, wellness properties, still moving through the therapist network. And that was enough. It was like I always wanted eventually to go direct to consumer, but there was no bandwidth. And then I fell pregnant and COVID hit and I was going to go on cruise control because I was about to give birth. So I was hoping my little b to B business, my business was going to take some time off, but of course everything shut down. And so it was a matter of, okay, now is the time, maybe not the most opportune time, but now is the time to pivot and repackage. Because I knew that to take it to direct to consumer, we needed our packaging to be a bit more elevated as well. So we then launched our ecommerce side of the business direct to consumer, just a little over a year ago. And I think that's why yourself and many other people have not heard of us. Although we have been around, we've been very around in the industry, the wellness industry, and behind the scenes with therapists and wellness properties. But this is the first time we actually advertised a product and shared it directly with the consumer.

LIZ COOK: So how long ago did you start working with Peninsula Hot Springs?

THEME RAINS: It was actually in 2016.

LIZ COOK: Yeah. Wow.

THEME RAINS: Yeah, a little while ago I was there. They had an Awakened Festival, their first festival last weekend with some speakers like Dr. Bruce Lipton and yoga teacher Shiva Ray and just real luminaries in the space of conscious well being. And yeah, I was reflecting on that. I was like, wow, it's been six years since they first took Synthesis on and how life changing that was, and just how beautifully it happened through really heartfelt interactions and value aligned people and decisions. Yeah, it was a real celebration last weekend to be looking at all of that again.

LIZ COOK: Let's talk about your brand philosophy, which is so beautiful and very, very clear to me that Synthesis is not just a brand of beautiful skincare and even just hearing you speak, but there's really a deeper essence. And I guess the products are more of a vehicle for the deeper essence of what you're here to do. If I can just read a little bit from your statement on your website, and I'll quote this. The world can either reflect our radiance or it can reflect our imbalances. Therefore, to heal a world in crisis, we must begin with ourselves. Our philosophy of enlightened self care is about the responsibility we have to ourselves, others, and to the planet to live in alignment with our intelligence and improve the world by improving ourselves, which positively impacts everything and everyone around us through the empowerment of our own radiance. So I can see that this isn't obviously just something that synthesis is, but this is something that clearly comes out of your heart and is who you are as a person. Can you tell me how you're thinking about the self and the world has evolved over the years? And I guess if you take even the marker of you being given a new name in your early twenty s, I guess, what's your biggest learning been over the most recent years? And if you look back over your life and what has been perhaps the biggest game changer in terms of the way that you approach life.

THEME RAINS: I was just reflecting that there's a lot in that statement that you just read out, but also your question and your finding. That statement is a reflection, obviously of who you are and what your brand is as well, because there's a lot of depth in the question as well as even just to find those particular lines in the website which do sum up a lot of my philosophy, which does come through synthesis. Synthesis is the synthesis of the tangible and intangible influences that touched and shaped my life and wanting to bring what's been most impactful or healing or nurturing to others through, as you say, the vehicle of skincare, which is something so intimate, we put it onto our bodies, it goes into our bloodstream. And so it's just a beautiful way to share and offer this nurturing force. And to your question? Yeah, at the time when I changed my name, it was part of a big conversion process for me from living. I was studying law, I wanted to go into human rights, I wanted to make a difference at a very intellectual level. And I had a very powerful experience while I was traveling where I realized that to be part of the shift in the world I had to connect with a force that was even greater than myself. And having grown up, I didn't grow up with a religious or spiritual background, so I was just trying to find the words to describe the experience. But it did bring me, as I started to connect and understand more about spirituality. And my friend who I was traveling with went on to study theology at Oxford, gave me many books, which opened my mind. Then when I met my teacher, it opened my heart. And suddenly everything that had happened in my mind was felt in my heart as an undeniable experience of universal love, of the power of that. And so I changed everything, including my name, to follow my heart rather than following my head or my intellect. And as I followed my heart, which was part of that was a desire to be part of making a difference to the problems that I saw in the world. But at the time I recognized the best way to make a difference to the problems in the world was to actually take responsibility. First of all for my own problems or self or healing. And if I could do that, that would affect everyone and everything around me in a positive way. And like the butterfly effect, it might seem only a small thing, but actually it can have a big impact because we are all interconnected. So all of these small, seemingly trivial choices and actions that we take are actually not. So when you look at the way they are interconnected and you follow them, you follow that ripple effect out. So that was a big change for me. And where the statement comes to make a difference in the world, we start with ourselves. Because that's somewhere that we can have impact. Sometimes it can feel overwhelming. We look at all what's happening and you look how can I make a difference? Actually, each of us can just in the choices that we make for how we are, what we purchase, what we put on our skin, what we eat, how we show up to our friends and family and colleagues. And so it's both a big responsibility as well as very liberating because you realize, yes, we are all empowered to make a difference and this is how we do it. And so in recent years has that changed? That's still very much there for me. And certainly recent years have forced the practice of everything that I've learned and been exposed to. Because it's one thing to receive wisdom and read it and learn and all of that. It's another thing to actually be able to live it under all conditions and things get really tough.

LIZ COOK: That's when it's required, isn't it? That's exactly theory. And then when it hits the fan and the challenge is, wow, how can I actually exactly what you're saying, how can I actually take this life approach? And now it's a challenge to myself. How do I stay in that space despite all the things that are in turmoil around me or the challenges?

THEME RAINS: Yeah, exactly. So it's like this great school that is the earth plane that is life, will bring us the lessons and experiences that we need to be able to embed and realize the truth of ourselves ultimately. And so we talk about the empowerment of our own radiance. And we use the word radiance because when we are aligned to the heart, which is the state of love, and the heart actually unifies the head, the intellect and the instinct, our gut. So the heart is the only center that can unify. So it's not that you're blindly following your heart, you're actually integrating your intellect with your intuition, your heart and your instinct. And it all comes together. The heart unifies all that. And also through the heart that we commune with nature and the earth. And so we make decisions that are more supportive for nature and the earth, but we also allow nature to nourish us because we can connect with her more intensely through the heart. So really, living from the heart and living from that heart intelligence does allow a holistic, it does allow us to become holy who we are not just in the head, not just in our gut instinct, not just in our heart, but just actually all one whole being. Yeah, recent years have definitely reinforced that of having time, being in the heart, practicing that, remembering, remembering that if I'm in my heart and committed to love in the present moment, the future comes out of this present moment. So how we are in this present moment does dictate the future in many ways or how resilient we are to things that are unexpected or difficult. So yeah, I would say that's remained with me. And the biggest learning in recent years has been to just keep recommitting to what I know to be true. I don't know if you've had the same experience, but there have been a few moments in my life where I've had this knowing and I know that I know yep, totally relate to that. It's an absolute like obviousness there's no pros and cons or this weighing up this versus that or it's just like, you know, and you are sure of that. And I found in recent years when things got a bit weird and even went back to try and live a bit more from my head for a little while and nothing of course, was working well. And when I recommitted to my heart and what I'd realized and the lessons that I'd got at that early age, everything just got back into alignment and started to flow again. Some of the things that's not still challenging and hard and you don't get thrown all kinds of things, but there's this peace and amongst it all of knowing that I'm living in alignment with what is true to me. Yeah. So that's what I'd say to that recommitment to what you know to be true.

LIZ COOK: Yeah, it's a good point too because I think we sometimes feel like when we've made the decision, it therefore is true going forward and we almost don't need to recommit but in actual fact, it's almost a daily recommitting to having that approach or that philosophy or that way of thinking. Because like you said, in your situation, your default position is to intellectualize or to go back to your head the way that you were as a young person in law and all that sort of thing. So we are sort of in some ways resisting our default position as we learn things. It's often a daily resubmitting to that, isn't it?

THEME RAINS: Yeah, absolutely. Just remembering recommitting and that's why little daily rituals and little things to help us remember and keep committed to what our true heart's desire is.

LIZ COOK: I just want to touch on something you said early in this particular answer, which was about self care. And I have this bee in my bonnet about self care now, not that I don't love it. I do. And I've learned to be really good at self care the last few years. I was never good at it before, but I think there's so much self absorption in the self care culture, let's say the culture we find ourself in, which is basically everything is about me. So if it doesn't work for me, then it's not working for any of you. And I'm recommitting to myself purely for the sake of myself, which I think is actually really damaging for the world. But something that you just talked about, you just touched on, it was about coming back to the self, being actually about taking personal responsibility. And it spoke to me immediately because often when people talk about self care, it's just about nurturing yourself and valuing yourself above all things. And I personally don't hold to that philosophy because I think we're all in this world together and we need to equally care for ourselves and one another. But I love the idea that coming back to self doesn't necessarily mean I put myself first and everyone else can go to hell. You're talking about taking personal responsibility for the decisions you make in life and then all of the change blows out of that. Can you talk about that for a minute?

THEME RAINS: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I've had that same beer in my run it cycles, just like the explosion of ego. And you're right because that's very separative and yeah, for all of those reasons I was like, I don't even want to use self care. But then I was like, no, let's reclaim this and let's give it a capital S and let's call it enlightened self care.

LIZ COOK: You do you just, whatever you do, don't you?

THEME RAINS: Do you?

LIZ COOK: Okay.

THEME RAINS: It's like basically because, yes, to me it's like the self. And it is it's very much about self responsibility, which is taking into account our impact on the world around us as well. And so to enlighten self care is definitely taking that into account. But it's the recognition that if we allow ourselves, if we're just completely turned out in service and taking care of everyone else and everything else, we can sometimes also neglect the basic needs that our body has and our emotions have and other things, and we can burn out and then we're no good to anybody. In fact, we might become even a burden. So part of that responsibility is being responsible for our wellness. It's being responsible for our energy, it's being responsible for how we show up. So all of that is in the self care. And like yourself, probably. I know I went through a long time of just being completely turned out and I did almost burn out. And I was like, okay, I've got to give myself what I need to be strong. And how I'm guided by that is, does this serve? Like if I'm wanting to be here in service, service to my family, to my little boy, to my friends, to the planet, to the Earth, I have to take into account my well being as part of that. So that's what the more enlightened self care philosophy is about. And also that when we do take responsibility for ourselves as in our wellness, and also the truth of us as interconnected beings with everything else. But when we do, we are well and balanced and lit up and we're full. Our cup is full. There is a natural radiance that spills out, and that radiance inspires and uplifts others around us. And it's that radiance that you see sometimes. I've got like one of those photos. It's like I think she's from Tibet or somewhere. She might be in her like she's an older woman, placed, covered in wrinkles, hardly any teeth, smiling, and she's so beautiful, but completely against the conventions of beauty in Western society, but she's undeniably beautiful. And it's like that radiance because she's just alive as love. And it's like that kind of radiance, that kind of beauty is infectious. And I believe it has a role in helping to make this whole world a better place.

LIZ COOK: Absolutely. And we don't need to abandon ourselves to be in service of others, do we?

THEME RAINS: Absolutely. And I think, again, self love, the distinction between self love, which is self absorption, and not taking others and not still being in relationship to the whole, and the problems of that, versus self love, which is that to love others, we do genuinely need to work on loving ourselves. But that's not in an egoic, self absorption way, but it's in forgiving ourselves in not having thoughts that are full of criticism and shame. It's like loving ourselves enough to nourish ourselves with healthy food and surround ourselves with people who are also positive and good for us. It's difficult because the words there's a fine distinction in those two types of self love. One is very, very difficult to truly love ourselves and as we love everyone else and be that compassionate and caring for ourselves is actually quite a process.

LIZ COOK: It is, absolutely. And I love the distinction that you've made there. May we all take that pathway rather than the hashtag? You do?

THEME RAINS: Yes. Which actually isn't ultimately loving ourselves because it's creating isolation in a way, and also maybe avoiding some of the challenge, because we learn through relationship, we learn through taking into account other people as well.

LIZ COOK: Talk to me about the concept of neurocosmetics, which is one of the anchors in how you develop products. It's so intriguing to me and totally up my alley because I have a really deep love of neuroscience, which is evidenced by about seven books currently, and at all times around neuroscience and thinking and how the brain works, et cetera. But also about the connectedness between our inner and outer world. So talk to me about this concept. Neurocosmic.

THEME RAINS: Yeah, so it's definitely a buzzword at the moment, but actually been around for a long time, but it's based on the idea that the brain and skin are intrinsically connected. And so anything that we apply to the skin can have an impact on our brain. And obviously, with neurocosmetics, we're looking for what has a positive impact. And so beautiful natural perfumes have a.

LIZ COOK: Positive impact for me now. Thank you.

THEME RAINS: They immediately make us feel better as we apply them to our skin and smell them. And so, yeah, neurocosmatics, again, people are trying to define it as no, it has to have a direct neurological effect, whereas others are like, well, all forms of aromatherapy is a form of neurocosmetic because it shifts how you feel. However we name it, I think we all know that by now that what we do apply to our bodies does go into our systems one way or another, and it can have a positive impact on our brain and help shift our mood. Yeah, we're working with a neurocosmetic at the moment based on Desert Rock Rose, and it basically shifts. So when we're highly stressed, the cortisol sends these markers into our skin and throughout the whole body and creates inflammation, which is the precursor of premature aging, but also all forms of disease. So inflammation is something we definitely want to avoid, which is why too much stress and cortisol is something we want to avoid. But this particular neurocosmetic, this extract, is shown to biomimic the effects of meditation when you apply it to the skin. So it turns off this activity that creates the inflammation in the skin in exactly the same way that meditation does.

LIZ COOK: That's incredible. You should send me the science about this because I will go on my reading list.

THEME RAINS: I will send you the science of this, and I'll send you a science, another one that we're looking at. You've heard of forest bathing?

LIZ COOK: Yes, I have. We've done a really good podcast episode.

THEME RAINS: Okay. The Japanese cedar, they've taken the extract of the cedar, and they've done tests, and they've looked at how including it as like a cosmetic ingredient in a cream that you apply to your skin on a daily basis, how it shifted people's perception of things. People would go it was very interesting science. People would always go to the positive when they were wearing this. So they would look for the yeah, it was like they they naturally sought out the more positive imagery and how they associated feeling was in a more relaxed kind of holiday mode. And the only thing that they changed was wearing this cedar extract every day on their skin. So it is very interesting, and it's.

LIZ COOK: Great because we can distill this down to say, oh, you know, aromatherapy works. But actually what it is is it's saying there. Is a deep need in our in our subconscious to connect to the natural world. So anything that brings us back to not just the smell of the forest but the chemistry that exists under the canopy our bodies desire it and we feel more centered and our alpha wave production increases and all of the biochemistry changes in relation to it. So we can't distill it down to being oh, it's aromatherapy, or oh, it's this particular chemical. It's something that our bodies crave, especially living in the city with these crazy lives that we have. Or not even necessarily in the city, but in the city type of environment where we work every day and we do all these things. Anything that brings us back, even a pot plant in the house, changes the way that you feel about your world. Our bodies need it. We need it. We can't deny it.

THEME RAINS: Absolutely. We need it so much. And I was talking about plants in our homes. Plants are the most effective air purifier second only to the human body. So if you don't have enough plants in your home, in your bedrooms, in your living spaces, your body is forced to be the air purifier. And so plants are amazing because they actually help us to live, as you say, in cities and places with a lot of pollution and toxic environments. And plants will actually process so much of that on our behalf. And all we have to do is lovingly keep them, give them all they need and that's their function. And they do that for us, which is amazing. But as you say, also it's like aromatherapy and natural perfumes. They will take us there. They will take us to the forest and take us to these places which we may not be able to access in our day to day. And that's why it's such a great way to connect with nature on a daily basis.

LIZ COOK: You probably know this research because of the neurocosmetics research that you do, but I recently ran a seminar for a marketing group about the power of olfaction and the connection to emotion. But if you look at the structure of the brain and where we smell fragrance, for example, and how fragrance impacts us, not only does it we process smell and the way that it makes us feel. For example, in the limbic system it's connected to emotion and memory. But more to that, there's a part of the limbic system that actually involves behavior. So exactly to what you're saying, it's like the brain is structured so that when we smell certain things, it influences our behavior. So it's not even a deliberate choice when you're talking about the cedar wood and people's just ability to perceive things more positively or to think more positively. This is actually already predestined, prewired in our brains for our brains to respond to the natural world in that way. So you cannot hold it back if it's there, your body will respond.

THEME RAINS: I do too. It's like the innate healing wisdom that we hold within just to listen to that, honor it and support it any which way we can.

LIZ COOK: Let's talk about this groundbreaking product that you guys have, which we have 100% jumped on board with no Talks. Now, I just want to say to you and I have recorded a couple of videos because we're doing this collaboration and whoever's listening to this podcast episode down the track will have missed this collaboration, but that's okay. So we're doing a collaboration with you guys where we're giving away no talks and you're giving away but when I first saw no Talks, why I was really intrigued was because thinking about something natural that can be an alternative to Botox. I am so skeptical and cynical whenever anybody makes claims about this kind of stuff, which is the first thing that got me investigating who synthesis was. And this is how I found you guys. But I just want to say before I delve into you telling me about this product, you guys sent me one to try out. And I have to say I was really surprised how fast I loved it and I knew I was going to love it, but I was so surprised within a couple of days I thought, oh my gosh, I have to look closer. It felt like my skin had been airbrushed, which really surprised me. And then a week into using, I went to a wedding and talking to a couple of girls and they said, how old are you? La la la. And I said, 46. And this lady leaned forward and touched my forehead forehead and said, oh, my God, do you get Botox? And I said, no, I would have to say it's you because no one has ever asked me if I've had Botox before. But a week into using no Talks, apparently it looks like all my wrinkles are disappearing. So I am suitably impressed by the product. But tell me about how has this product catapulted you guys into having cult status around the product and the brand and how did you develop it? And why has no one else developed a product? I mean, there's a lot of beautiful products going around that are positive aging or anti aging or however you want to call it. But why has no one done something like this before? Tell me all about no talks.

THEME RAINS: I know it's quite a wonder to me, to the no tox and what it is and how it's all come about, but it came out of pure necessity. Like I said, I this little baby and it was like I was trying to work and sleepless nights and dapped to being a new mum. And I just worked out we're the same age, so it's definitely a very mature age mum. And I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror when I was like, oh, my gosh. I was just like, aged.

LIZ COOK: Thank you, kids. We would be looking 20 years younger if it wasn't for our children. Right, right.

THEME RAINS: I was like, there must be something that in the plant kingdom that will just start to ease the signs of just sheer fatigue and stress from my skin. I'm like, okay, let me find some things. And I just started to put something together. And I'd come across some of these plants before, but then there were some new ones too. And so I just started blending it together. And some of them have been shown to have a similar, if not the same effect as Botox on our skin. And we're not talking about the medical use of Botox, which is for TMJ or injuries, and I'm talking about the topical effect and use of it in that it relaxes the muscles and so it smooths out the expression lines. It's the same biological effect, but without the side effects, like getting frozen or anything like that. And I'm like, okay, that's interesting. I'd known about it for a while, but I was like, we'll put that into and then came across some from deep below the ocean that have this cooling, lifting, beautiful, firming effect, and then combining that with some of the other plants that I knew to just be so healing for the skin. And a lot of native plants, our native Australian plants, botanicals, are just amazing because I think they've had to adapt to very stressful conditions. And so the antioxidants and the bioactives that they have within them just really support the skin going to be more resilient to stress. So, yeah, it all came together and I started offering it to friends and doing trials, and then we started getting like, really amazing results from it and playing with different names and no tox just kept coming because obviously no toxins. Like, we're not going to we're breastfeeding. I'm breastfeeding. And my philosophy anyway, is like, no toxins, nothing chemical, nothing synthetic happens to.

LIZ COOK: Rhyme with Botox, and it just happens.

THEME RAINS: To rhyme with Botox, which has these extracts that work in the same way as Botox. So I was like, okay, this is great. So that's how it all came about. And then, yeah, I found another extract that has from honey locust seeds that just instantly firms and tightens the skin, but it only lasts for the day. But I'm like, okay, well, that's great because it gives you that instant effect while the other actives are actually going to work on the skin's architecture and actually rebuilding the skin, giving it the nutrients it needs to be healthy, to renew, to boost everything. So I was like, that's nice. But then the supplier suddenly like, we're going to start preserving this with the power. And I'm like, oh, no, we can't use that. So we dropped that just after we launched it to, like, read.

LIZ COOK: Have you not read our philosophy? Do you know anything about.

THEME RAINS: So we had to pull it out and so then I had to find some other things to replace it. But just this year they've agreed to now preserve it naturally. So we've put it back in again, which is great because it gives you that instant lift while everything else goes to work, which takes a little bit more time because obviously when you're rebuilding the skin and you're working, it takes our skin cycle to really show the effects. Really. And that's true for any topical skincare. As the skin goes through its whole renewal cycle, you'll start to see the benefits of what you're applying to it. Yeah, so that's how notox came about. It was just the need for something to help and that was side effect free. And then I put it into a rose hydrosol because rose, I just the rose that we use comes from the Valley of Roses in Bulgaria. It's very therapeutic, it's heart opening. So coming back to what we're talking about before, it's like a daily ritual of saying I love you to your skin by infusing it with rose. Because although rose has got great benefits for the skin in and of itself, but the aroma and the energy and the therapeutic quality is very heart aligning and heart opening and I come back. I do believe that true beauty comes from the heart. So having a product that also nurtures the heart and its radiance is important and then we put it all through our energy imbued process and I feel like that's why it works so well. Because the energy imbued process synergizes everything. And it's not that other people don't have access to these plants and these actives and they've not put them together in other interesting combinations, but the energy imbued process lifts them all to their highest potential and it harmonizes with us and our wellness intentions for ourselves. So it brings in another level of prana, of energy, of support, of intention and connection. So it's interesting, no talks doesn't work for everybody. We offer a money back guarantee because the worst thing I want to do is have people disappointed after spending money. So we just give people their money back if they're not happy with it at all. And since we launched it over a year ago, we've had less than 1% returns.

LIZ COOK: Wow.

THEME RAINS: So for some people it really just doesn't work for them. At least not in the time that they allocate using it. But for others we get reviews on a daily basis, really amazing reviews. And the ones that I get the most excited about are the ones where people say they feel they will say things like I feel like I'm loving myself when I apply this product or I feel better or more relaxed. And yes, it's also exciting to hear that it smooths out wrinkles and people have said, three people have asked them have had Botox or I look like I've had 10 hours sleep. And all of that's great, because when we're healthy and well, we do just naturally look better. It's just a reflection of our well being that's some of the story of Nutox.

LIZ COOK: Well, I love it, and I have to say, I do feel that it definitely does feel like a self love ritual. I mean, it only takes a minute to apply it, and I do like to give it a little bit of a massage into my skin before I put a serum and a moisturizer over the top, but I absolutely feel like it is self love in a little bottle, that little light, clear, gel consistency. But I feel like I want to take that little bit of extra time with myself when I put it on. So it is beautiful, and all the things that you say are sensed in the product. So well done to you and your team.

THEME RAINS: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's a wonder. I just feel like it has a spirit of its own and just came together.

LIZ COOK: It made itself for you. It presented.

THEME RAINS: Exactly.

LIZ COOK: Now that we're down this trajectory, let's talk about the pathway of antiaging treatments. And before we do, it's funny, isn't it, that there's this culture of people wanting to do we don't even know if to call it antiaging anymore because we want to say pro aging, positive aging, all of this. But there's almost this double, this dual culture that exists where we like, let's be honest. I don't want to look like what 46 is perceived to look like. I don't want to look like an old woman who's had two kids who's been through stress. I don't want to look like whatever we think that looks like. But at the same time, we don't want to say anti aging because we don't want to say that aging is a bad thing. So it always feels like a weird pathway to start down. But if we're being honest, I think none of us want to look like we're not well and we're not healthy. So that's really what it comes back to. Like, I want to look well and vital and healthy, and I feel really good. I want my skin and my body to reflect that. So if we talk about antiaging and you tell me what terminology you use I'm not saying that aging is a bad thing. Aging is an incredible privilege. But I don't want to look like everything that has come into my life sits on my face. I want to look free. So I'll just start by saying that. But let's talk about this, because the demand for non surgical procedures and every time I open instagram, I mean, if I go down the path of checking not just my friends who post, but whatever you call that, because I'm not 20, so I don't know what it's called. But that little thing where you look at whatever randoms are posting. Most of the things are about these non surgical things and these surgical things, and it's really quite you have to be careful not to go down this pathway because you feel like **** when you get off. But all of this has skyrocketed in recent years, starting, of course, with Botox and then Fillers and now Threading and Laser and all of these other things. What's your approach to this side of the beauty industry? And how do you think that people can stay looking and feeling well and youthful for a long time while still staying close and committed to nature, but also embracing how you evolve in yourself over the years?

THEME RAINS: It's a big conversation, and it's nice to start and share it with you, some of it with you today. Everything you said is very insightful and true for a lot of us women, I'm sure. And like you, we you know, we're not anti aging because it's a natural process and as you say, it's a true privilege. There's words like, well, aging and pro aging and graceful aging and what do all of these mean to us and what are we supporting? It comes down to health and wellness and being able to look and feel vibrant at any age. Because to be honest, you can see I've seen people in their who look much, much older than their age or haggard because they're so stressed or they're not taking care of themselves, et cetera. So it's really like the philosophy of at any age, how do we look and feel our best? And then that also gets into another thing. What is our best? Because I think when we start to cross over with too much intervention and we're not going to have our free expressions anymore, or we're not celebrating some of the expression lines of life, then maybe some of our unique beauty is lost too. Which I think is a shame, because our philosophy is very much about celebrating unique beauty. And I use an example. I don't know if you've heard of the work of Dr. Omoto. He's a Japanese scientist who took photos of water crystals. It's really interesting. Took photos of water crystals, is Japanese scientist Dr. Amoto, and took photos of water that had been exposed to positive influences like beautiful music, prayer, words like love or compassion, and then took pictures of the same crystals after the water that had been exposed to pollution or words like hate or negative intention. And the water it's interesting because we're made up so much of water, which is why this experiment is so interesting. The water that had been exposed to so called negative just didn't form crystals. It just looked murky, and you just kind of looked at it and you wouldn't think anything about it. But the water that had been the crystals that have been exposed to positive influences formed these beautiful crystals, and nobody would look at them and not say they were beautiful. They're undeniably beautiful and each crystal is unique and yet they're undeniably beautiful. So what is it that makes them so beautiful? They're holding this incredible balance within them. They're holding the light like these crystals hold light and they have this radiance and they're just undeniably beautiful. And I'm like that really sums up what our philosophy is. And what we want to encourage is that we expose ourselves and people use our products to as much positive influence as possible. That we like those crystals shine in our unique, undeniable beauty. And that's not age dependent. It's just when we are fully in harmony and we are nourished and nurtured to the point where we are shining and so that's really where we sit and what we want to encourage in all of that. And having said that, we actually work with doctors and dermatologists and skin doctors, even plastic surgeons in the US. And they say that they get better results using they're still using the machines and the intervention, but they're using synthesis alongside it and they say they get much better results with that than any cosmeceuticals or chemicals that they've used some of them, and they're like, 20 plus years of practice. And so sometimes you might have a mark in your face and you want to get Laser to take it out because it's distressing to you or whatever. I mean, we all make whatever decision is best for us. So that's a unique process and it's interesting that we see that when people use synthesis which is like organic nurturing, high vibrational products, they get better results from the other more intrusive interventions that they're doing because their skin is healthy, it can respond better to what they're doing, it can bounce back. So there's definitely a place for certain people for that combination. But I think one of the biggest issues that I have with the whole botox injectables is the way that it's marketed to young people as a preventative, especially by baby botox. It's not a preventative. Sure, once you have wrinkles if you want to smooth them out quickly and that's your choice. But it's not a preventative. And so a lot of young people are being marketed to or swayed and influenced to believe that they need to do this to keep their skin looking healthy and youthful. It's like no, what you need to do to keep your skin looking healthy and youthful is take care of it with high nutrient nontoxic products and ingredients and feed yourself foods that build up the minerals and the building blocks that your body needs to be healthy and shine. That's what you need to do. And so that's the area that irk at most is the intervention marketed towards younger people. And also yeah, just that it's and the underlying implication that somehow, for any age we're not uniquely beautiful as we are that we have to do something to conform and look like other people do or something to be accepted or to be beautiful. And so that really irks me too, because we all look the same. It'd be pretty boring.

LIZ COOK: Yeah, that's right. We could spend literally two or 3 hours walking through this because this is exactly the way that I feel about it. And I think often it's not that anybody's saying if you need to or you feel like you need to or whatever, you can't do it. It's not about this. But I think a lot of these procedures are very it's a very reductionist view. First of all, just to say go and get Botox or go and get a thread lift. And now look, you're all good because we're missing the bigger picture about health. And what is health? You can go get Botox and then go and get hammered at a party every weekend and are you actually doing yourself any favors? So it's reductionist number one and exactly what you're saying, that the culture of you're not enough. You need to be different or you need to look the same as your girlfriends or the people on Instagram who have filters or whatever. That is the culture that's toxic. I'd love to clean not only the toxins out of the cosmetics, but the toxic culture out of the cosmetics industry. Exactly. Which you and I find ourselves in this industry. But we obviously fighting against that messaging, which is it's going to be a long, long battle. But it sounds like me and you are here to fight that along with a lot of our colleagues.

THEME RAINS: Exactly. One of my mentors, Judith White, she had a brand called In Essence. She wrote a lot of books for Hayhouse, and she and her sister were one of the first to come out and be okay. Well, a bottle of True Lavender does cost you $27 a bottle. It's not $3 a bottle, but this is what you get for that. And really led the awareness of but anyway, she mentored me for a long time before she passed. And we used to talk about the fact that I don't know the current statistics, but it wasn't that long ago where it was something like 95% of the industry was still not natural and organic in the personal care industry. And we're like, we have to band together to make a big impact and shift that statistic. So it's like there's more natural and organic brands in the world, there's more choices, and we start to really shift that.

LIZ COOK: Yeah. And look, I feel like that's happening. I know. In the natural perfume space, just particularly in that space in our space, the natural and more eco friendly. I hate the term clean fragrance or clean beauty because it really means nothing, but that space is growing at double the speed of the rest of the fragrance industry. Yeah, it's incredible. People are really embracing it. But my prediction is in that in the next ten years. I think natural and organic is going to be people's default choice and we'll make the other choices if we want something specific or whatever. But I feel like we're only a decade away from it being most people's go to to think, of course I would choose the natural option. Maybe I'm too much of an optimist.

THEME RAINS: But I mean, I'm with you. Yeah. The one thing that's working against us and really rounds me up as well is that being organic or natural, you have to pay a premium, you have to pay more for the auditing, you have to pay more for it's. Like you're taxed heavily for doing the right thing, whereas the chemical alternatives and so people choosing natural organic have to pay more. And it's not just that those ingredients cost more, they do. But if we shifted the way things are taxed and it could make it a lot more accessible. Exactly. And also make some of the chemical things which the true costs of those to the environment and to all of us are not taken into account. If we actually put a bit of a price tag on that, their true expense would be reflected in that and then they wouldn't be as attractive. So that's one of the difficulties that we face, is that it's almost luxury to be natural and organic, whereas yeah, it doesn't need to be that way.

LIZ COOK: Exactly. And I'm much like you, I have a passion to make natural and organic accessible. I don't want it to be if you're rich, you can afford that. I want it to be the default. And there obviously are cheaper ways to do things for people who can't afford to have all the higher tech skincare. You can go and buy a bottle of Jojoba oil, for example, as a really good starting point. There's lots of things you can do, but yeah, I actually hate thinking that natural and organic is an elite way to go. I don't want to be elitist in my brand and I'm not interested in making natural just for rich people. I just think that does the whole movement a disservice.

THEME RAINS: Yeah, it definitely does. And it's just getting some help from the authorities and the auditors.

LIZ COOK: Now, I'll say that you're maybe a little bit too positive. Anything good that happens comes from the people, not from the government. You know that.

THEME RAINS: Somebody very wisely told me if anything can change, everything can change. Nothing was ever binding in the first instance.

LIZ COOK: Absolutely.

THEME RAINS: Let's put our energy towards the world we want to create and know that it is possible. Absolutely.

LIZ COOK: Now, I have one final question for you, which is a little bit self indulgent because I always want to know, but I think everybody, whenever I interview somebody in the beauty or wellness industry, everybody who's listening wants to know, well, what do they do? And what should I do as kind of my default? Go to good habits. So let's talk about your personal beauty and wellness routine and what are your non negotiables and what are the things that you do that make the biggest difference to how you feel physically, mentally, emotionally?

THEME RAINS: Yeah, it's a good question as well. It's always interesting to hear what others say, too, because then it triggers you, oh, I could do that.

LIZ COOK: Yeah. Or, I have that in my cupboard and I haven't used it for six weeks.

THEME RAINS: Obviously, I used to have a lot more of a wellness routine before I became a working mama. I had a lot more yoga. That was my major go to. These days, I have to embrace the yoga of being with my little one. But I still like some of the non negotiables are making sure that we're all nourished with high nutrient, high vibrational food. So having the right food creates such a foundation for everything else. And for me, walking and swimming in the ocean is just so like that just resets me physically, mentally, emotionally. It's completely holistic. I just love that. And if you're not by an ocean, any kind of salt therapy. So when I'm traveling or whatever, I'll have a salt bath or I'll put salt into my body, wash or scrub and scrub myself down with it, especially if I'm working with a lot of people, because salt is a natural energy cleanser as well as detoxifier, and the aromatherapy is part of our life. And so I think it's just there all the time. The presence of the plants as part of my beauty and wellness routine. But no tox is a non negotiable for me and my partner.

LIZ COOK: Well, you made it for you in the beginning, so that's got to be the case, right?

THEME RAINS: This is for you first and replenish elixir, which is the elixir that I put on top of it. I really love that. I feel I miss it if I just even go a day without it. Yeah. And we recently invested in an infrared sauna, too.

LIZ COOK: I have a friend that did that recently and said it's game changing.

THEME RAINS: It is game changing because I love traditional saunas. We both prefer traditional saunas in some ways in terms of the smell of the cedar and you can put essential oils in and all of that. But in terms of efficacy in a very short amount of time, the infrared, it's like 15 minutes in and out, and it's so detoxing and calming. And they have, like, Led therapy at the same time. So have found having that as a cleansing and relaxing has been yeah. We were like, do we buy because we just moved into where we're building our new synthesis HQ and we're going to be growing a lot of botanicals there, and we're in an old farm. I was like, do we buy a table or a couch or something? We're like, no, we'll get a store.

LIZ COOK: That's awesome. So even better.

THEME RAINS: But. In terms of our health, I think that's one of our most indulgent health and wellness. And of course, it's also beauty because infrared helps detoxify the skin and give you that glow too. But there's infrared saunas all over the place now that you can normally just go and go to and pay for a session.

LIZ COOK: Yeah, exactly. That's beautiful. Now, look, and I think the biggest learning here in terms of things that you can do is you don't have to do everything. And you don't have to do all the high level things if you've got no time because you have a newborn or a three year old, but you have legs and you can walk or you have a bath and you can chuck some Epsom salts in.

THEME RAINS: Exactly.

LIZ COOK: All of that stuff is beneficial, isn't it?

THEME RAINS: And just the breath, it sounds like it's not a routine, right? Because we're doing it, we need it to live. But just remembering how powerful the breath can be, if we are, like you say, if we're going through we don't have time for anything else. Just learning to consciously breathe and observing our breath and ensuring that we're breathing deeply so we're getting the full amount of oxygen that we need, and we're not hyperventilating, which is creating more stress or affecting going into just the mind where we often hold our breath, or it's just the basic of practicing just, how am I breathing right now? And could I learn to breathe more deeply, more naturally? Even if you've got the time and the space. Doing a breath work class, learning a bit about breath because it's no matter what, until our last breath, we have this incredible wellness tool just with the inhale and exhale that costs no money.

LIZ COOK: And takes almost no time.

THEME RAINS: Exactly.

LIZ COOK: That's wonderful. That's great advice. Well, seem it's been a delightful conversation and very soul edifying, I have to say. So I'm so grateful that you've joined me today and I know people listening will get a lot out of this. It's not just about beauty and beauty products, but this is really about a way of life in the way that we choose to be. So it's really good to tackle all of those subjects with you. It's been delightful.

THEME RAINS: Yeah, it's been so delightful talking to you and thank you for the great work that you're doing and for having me on today.

LIZ COOK: Thank you.

LIZ COOK: Unconscious is presented by OneSeed. Find out more at OneSeed perfumes.com and please don't forget to subscribe rate us on itunes and share us with your friends so we can all live a little more consciously.